Assessing Your Allyship Journey

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Queing (she/her/queen): Welcome to Voices. I’m Queing Jones, your host, and I am so proud to be here today with Renu Sachdeva who is an expert, a guru, a coach, a leader, and a diversity equity and inclusion specialist. But I’m going to let her tell you more about herself in just a bit. The conversation that we’re getting into today is about assessing your journey of allyship individually and as an organization. Please help me welcome Renu.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Thank you so much Queing for that introduction. I don’t know if I would add guru and all those beautiful terms you added to my title, but I am someone who is extremely passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion. I am an Executive Coach with Talking Talent and I coach in the DEI space which I think coaching and DEI coming together is a beautiful merger of helping individuals on their growth journey as leaders, as professionals, and as inclusive leaders. I also teach a DEI course to undergraduate business students. So, that’s another way that I help bring this passion to life and hopefully am helping to build up the next generation of future leaders who are aware and passionate of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and can be inclusive leaders themselves.

Queing (she/her/queen): Well, we’re grateful to have you back, because this is not your first one. You have been here with us. So, if you are a subscriber or are about to become a subscriber to our podcast, please scroll through those videos and check out the other video that we did, our other podcasts we did with Renu and Andrea. I’m probably just messing up the title, but it was about your journey with diversity and the need for that. Can you help me with the title? I guess I should have looked that up.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): I think it was Building a Diverse Workforce or Building and Maintaining a Diverse Workforce.

Queing (she/her/queen): Yes. Building and Maintaining a Diverse Workforce. Yes. All right. So, one of the things that inspired this conversation for me is that I’ve been really combing through that McKenzie and Leanin report Women in the Workplace. There’s this one section in there where they talk about allyship and they found that although 77% of white employees would identify themselves as allies, what they were finding is that almost half of those were not performing consistent allyship actions in the workplace. So, it got me to thinking, and the report doesn’t answer this. It’s something that we have to do ourselves. But it got me to thinking, is it that people are just not being allies, or is it people not understanding what that means or is it just not crossing over into people who need allyship, what identify is? But there’s a gap there. There’s something that’s not connecting. So, when you talk about how we need to access our allyship journey individually and organizationally, this is absolutely the time for that. So, would you just start with breaking down for us what is allyship? Then let’s talk about what those gaps are between real allyship and performative allyship.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah, absolutely Queing. I love that report too and I think it’s such a great source of information. So, starting with what allyship is, part of the reason, I think there’s this disconnect between people considering themselves to be allies and those who are on the receiving end, not necessarily feeling like they’re on the receiving end of allyship. That’s why there’s that disconnect in the statistics because I think that first off, not everybody understands and has agreed upon the definition of allyship. The thing is nobody can be a self-proclaimed ally. If you are calling yourself an ally and the people that you are trying to be an ally to don’t necessarily agree it’s safe to assume you’re not an ally, right? So, first, off it is not for us to call ourselves allies. It is for those who are in marginalized communities, who we are actually seeking to be an ally for, to recognize us as such.

So, that’s part of the disconnect that you talked about. So, that’s why when we talk about the definition of allyship, well, of course, it’s going to shift and can be dependent upon the perspective of the beholder, the person on the receiving end, who is determining and, and feeling whether or not your actions have risen into that level of allyship. So, I know there are actually some thought leaders in the DEI space today who are shifting away from the use of the word allyship because the meaning has gotten lost to a certain degree, but still, we need definitions. There’s energy behind words. So, I’ll give you the definition I personally have heard, and I believe encapsulates what allyship is. Allyship, in my opinion, is leveraging your own privilege to benefit those who are lacking privilege in a certain area.

Most of us have privilege in certain areas don’t have privilege in others. It’s about recognizing when we do have privilege in a given circumstance, situation, organization, and when we can leverage that privilege to help others, not as a savior. This is not about swooping in as a savior complex. It’s recognizing that these individuals are fully capable. They’re just as capable as we are but because of that lack of privilege, they are now part of a marginalized community. So, how do we transfer the benefits of our privilege to them to empower them to rise up?

The other thing about an ally is that we are constantly educating ourselves and we are seeking to educate others. So, we can’t just stop at educating ourselves. That’s a key component. We’re not putting the burden of education on the community that’s already underrepresented or marginalized. We’re taking it upon us to educate ourselves and we’re also stepping forward to educate others. That’s another key component of allyship and then also amplifying the voices of those who are marginalized. We are not speaking on behalf of them. We are not speaking for them. We are standing beside them and walking beside them on their journey and taking on their struggle as our own and we’re walking behind them in support of them and raising them up again, leveraging our privilege to elevate them. Those are some key components of allyship that I think really can make an impact.

Queing (she/her/queen): Wow, that’s really powerful. I like that you said it’s transferring the benefit of privilege. I think that’s a really profound way to say that. So, with that in mind, there’s also performative allyship and some things would be obvious. We know over the past couple of years in social media world, there was the posting of the black square on Instagram. For example, you don’t really have to do anything to post a black square. So, someone could say, well, that’s just performative. They may, or they may not actually mean that they’re going to do something. But what are some of the more subtle signs though of performative allyship as we talk about assessing our journey? What are some of those things that we need to be aware of within ourselves or maybe within our organizations when we’re really just performing?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah. That’s such a great question and the thing about performative allyship, the root of performative, the root of that word is performance. So, there’s almost this implication of saying, oh, you’re just performing. You’re just pretending to be an ally. While that may be true in some cases, I think there’s also an unintentional thing to your point like that the black boxes. People truly did feel that they were supporting the community and the cause when they put that black box on social media. So, they were unintentionally being performative. So, it’s really about understanding, like you said. It doesn’t take a lot to put a black box on social media. Then also we have to ask ourselves, what’s the impact? If we are doing something, what’s the impact? And if there’s not really a great impact to that, or a meaningful impact to that, then we risk our actions being more in that category of performative because they’re not really having an impact.

So that’s one thing to look out for when you’re thinking about performative allyship. If we are doing something that doesn’t have a great impact, that’s a low cost on our part, because it doesn’t take much to change your profile picture on social media. It takes what, a minute to change it and another minute to change it back. So, there’s a low investment of time. There’s a low risk to the individual who’s doing it and there’s no great impact from the action that was taken. That’s an example of some of those subtleties of what performative allyship can be. The other thing to look out for is words versus actions. I often say that allyship is a verb. It’s technically a noun for all the grammar experts out there but it really needs to be a verb. It has to be action-oriented. Again, not just a simple action that doesn’t have a high benefit to it, but action that has an impact. So, that’s another way to think about allyship.

The other subtle thing or subtle sign of performative allyship if its people jumping on the bandwagon. What I mean by that is if it’s trending, if it’s something… After George Floyd was murdered in 2020, obviously it started a huge social justice movement. We had the Black Lives Matter movement, which did not start in 2020, but clearly, that definitely brought it to the forefront of the social justice movement. You had a lot of people posting stuff on social media. You had a lot of companies putting out statements after this happened. But the thing is if there’s not sustained change and systematic change it’s performative.

It’s hard to think about it that way because sometimes we feel like, but we did something. But the thing is, this didn’t start in 2020, and this did not end in 2020. This is an ongoing systemic issue of inequities for black people in this country, for women in this country, for members of the LGBTQ+ community, for members of the disability community. I mean, it’s an exhaustive list, but there are so many different communities that are marginalized. If we are just in the moment, being allies in the moment and we are not recognizing that there are actual systemic issues that need to be corrected, then that’s performative allyship and it’s not true allyship.

Queing (she/her/queen): And the thing is the results are now showing because when we think about some of the studies that have revealed what has happened since some of those commitments have been made, we’re seeing that people did not keep their word. They did jump on the bandwagon. They did set aside some money, but that money did not go where it was. Those human efforts did not go. You were sharing with me before the call about some of the financial institutions and I was saying that there were these big promises made and if anyone should know how to manage the money, it should be some of these global leaders in finance, but yet that’s not what happened. Could you speak to that?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah. I mean, it’s one of those things where I think that… I’m not the expert on this, and there’s definitely something that if you’re interested in really getting into the numbers, I would highly recommend Googling it. But I think there’s something about commitments that are made in the moment. The commitments that were made in 2020 and the onus on us as a society to really hold companies accountable, to actually do the research, do the homework, understand where they’re spending the money. Are the efforts being made? Again, it’s all about impact, and are we actually dismantling the systemic inequities that have caused us to get to this point in the first place? If the money’s not necessarily impacting that, then questions should be raised and if we are employees of those organizations that made commitments, I think it’s fair for us to seek to understand how our employer is living up to the commitment that they made. Organizations, companies are complex and that’s why I said, I’m not going to get into the numbers because they’re beyond…

Queing (she/her/queen): Yes. We’re not getting into numbers or names.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Right, exactly, but it’s more about what’s the impact and is the impact that was stated actually being made and if not, again unintentional or intentional, that’s not for me to judge. But what can be done to actually have the impact be made that is desired to be made or committed to be made?

Queing (she/her/queen): What would you say then for those unintentional or just was not managed well, who did make some of those promises and it is apparent that the word was not kept there. How can those things, how can organizations start to turn that around and rededicate, recommit to their word as we head out of 2021?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah. That’s a great question and I think it’s really about assessing where you are on the journey. I know you and I were talking about this phrase earlier on, and it’s something I use a lot in the coaching that I do because we’re all in different places on our journey. There’s where we aspire to be and there’s where we are. We have to be brutally honest with ourselves about where we are on the journey. To your point, I like that you use that turning analogy because if it’s a large organization, I had somebody use this metaphor once and I think it’s an apt metaphor. It’s like turning a cruise ship. If you’ve ever been on a cruise ship, that thing probably takes a good hour to turn, which I mean, relatively speaking and you don’t even necessarily know that it’s turning because it’s a huge ship.

So, in that same vein, if we’re talking about organizations that are very large, we have to recognize that change is not going to happen overnight and companies need to do an honest assessment of where they are on their journey, around diversity, equity and inclusion, and allyship. What is an attainable re realistic and measurable goal? We talk about SMART goals so I’m pulling out some of those letters from the acronym for the company to set for itself and be transparent about those goals. You can set a one-year goal. I know companies are setting five-year goals. I’ve seen some companies say by 2025, here’s what we want the makeup of our leadership team to be, here’s what we want the makeup of our board to be et cetera. So, each company has an opportunity to honestly assess where they are and then be realistic about where they can go within the next timeframe.

But when I say realistic, I don’t mean to be conservative. I mean, put assigned stretch goals for yourself, push yourself into the uncomfortable zone, just like companies set revenue goals, just like companies set other goals that make the business successful. This is just as important, if not more so for companies to get clear about what it is they are hoping to achieve in the DEI space as a company that at least verbally has committed to being an ally. Now, how do they back that up with actions and create a plan?

Queing (she/her/queen): What it causes me to think about is the individual. We started this off by talking about that report and in the report, they were talking to individuals who did identify themselves as allies. We’ve learned from you that you don’t get to just claim that as a title, but what was happening is that it wasn’t matching up with what people really needed. Things like sponsorship, mentorship, things like co-signing a point that maybe somebody made in a meeting. Regardless of whether or not an organization is operating in true allyship or not, what are some of the things that individuals can take to, I want to say it how you did, transfer the benefit of their privilege? Because that’s something that we all have. Everyone has some level of privilege, whether they recognize it or not. What are some of the things that we can be doing as individuals in the workplace on a daily basis, maybe habits that we have to benefit others?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah. It’s such a great question, Queing and even when we talk about the organizational level, we have to remember organizations are not people. Organizations are made up of people. They have leaders at the helm who are making decisions. So, even when we were talking at the organizational level, it still comes down to the leaders who are leading the organization to chart the course for the organization to show up as an ally and to advance in the DEI space. Then to your point, when we bring it to the individual level, maybe it’s not the C-suites, maybe it’s people like you and me who are at any given level within an organization and may not always feel empowered to bring about change ourselves. But the thing is we all do have power. It’s interesting, I mentioned that I’m teaching a course right now and allyship is part of my curriculum because it is such an important topic.

On the discussion board, I always have the students reflect on the lectures for the week. When they were about allyship, I had multiple students bravely acknowledge that they want to be an ally, but because maybe their reserved nature or what really stood out to me when they said, I didn’t think it would matter. I didn’t think it would make a difference. That really made me pause. First, of course, I acknowledged and thanked them for their courage and even admitting that and acknowledging that. But also, I know they’re not alone in thinking and feeling that way. That what can I do? I’m just so and so. I’m just a cog in the machine. I’m just one of however many thousands of people that work here.

But the thing is regardless of your title, regardless of where you are in your career in the organization, you absolutely have the opportunity to be an ally like you called out Queing about the privilege. Recognizing when you do have privilege and transferring the benefits of that privilege to others. So, what does that look like? What could that look like in the workplace? For example, in meetings, notice whose voice isn’t being heard. Maybe they’re not having an opportunity to speak because the meeting’s moving too fast. Maybe they are speaking and they’re getting interrupted or talked over. Notice who’s not being heard and the next time… Again, if you are somebody who is heard in meetings, whose voice is listened to, create space for that person. Say, I would really like to hear what so and so has to say, or if they get interrupted, you know what, let’s come back to them because I’d like to hear the rest of what they had to say. It’s a small action but it can absolutely have a big impact.

The other thing is microaggressions and another term for that, that I heard from Dr. Jana recently is subtle acts of exclusion. So, some people feel different ways about microaggression. So, subtle acts of exclusion. The more aware we can be of when those things are occurring when microaggressions or SAEs as she calls them are occurring. The more that we have an opportunity to step in as an ally and speak up. To correct the person who’s committing the microaggression or the SAE, which often happens unintentionally. But at the same time, it’s a teaching moment to be able to educate that person of why what they said or did actually has the effect of making someone feel excluded and why it’s not okay. That’s really simple. It’s a simple thing that we can do, and I say simple, even though some people are like, that’s hard, it’s hard to do.

It is but being an ally takes courage. You’re not going to be an ally without being brave and that’s just the reality of it. So, I go back to a quote by, I think Ruth Bader Ginsburg where she says speak up, even if your voice shakes. I probably butchered that but the essence of it is even if you’re scared speak up and that’s what allies do. So, that’s another example of being an ally. Then you touched on some, being an advocate, being a sponsor for somebody, putting people up for opportunities that may not be considered because of unconscious biases and people have their go-to people. Putting up somebody who’s not being considered for an opportunity, advocating for them behind the scenes. That’s another way to show up.

Also being cognizant of in-groups and out-groups. It feels kind of high school-ish to say, like the cliques but at the end of the day I mean, if you really think about your department, your team, I am sure you can recognize, especially in a pre-COVID era, who’s the group who always went to lunch together and who are the people who maybe have been on the outskirts and not necessarily part of that in-group. I say that somewhat jokingly, but it’s actually a very serious matter because that again could be very well unintentional because we haven’t even paused to recognize it, but it is having the effect of excluding people and that’s not what we want to do. An ally is someone who brings people in.

Queing (she/her/queen): Yes, and they’re going to speak about people who need that advocacy. They’re going to speak about them even when that person is not in the room, and it means so much. I can attest to that myself. The feeling of knowing that you are supported in that way is just tremendous and the way it will just trickle out and impact the culture is huge too. The point that you made about being an ally takes courage. That’s how you know you’re one. It reminds me of this conversation I had with a group of young people one time. I just learned so much from talking to young people, especially little kids. If you’ve got them in your family or around ask them deep questions, you will learn so much.

So, I asked these kids one day who’s not afraid of anything. So, I’m not afraid of anything. You know they’re being well, I’m not afraid of the dark. I’m not afraid of bugs, all of this. So, they’re not afraid and we were having a conversation about being brave like superheroes. So, the few that were saying they’re not afraid of anything and you saw other ones who were afraid of the dark, or they didn’t like to sleep in their bedroom by themselves or something. So, I say to the ones who aren’t afraid of anything, well, how do you know that you’re brave? How do you know that? The only way you can be sure that you’re brave is that there was something that you were afraid of, but you just did it anyway.

The hallway was dark, but you walked down the hallway anyway, even though you were a little afraid and when you were speaking about how allyship takes courage, it reminded me that is so true. The only way, because you can’t claim that title, it’s not a title to be claimed. The only way for us to know that we truly are allies is in the face of maybe there being some type of retaliation if you do stand up or say something. Maybe at the risk of you being othered or the risk of you maybe even having to take on a bit more responsibility or a bit more eyes on you than you had wanted at the time. The only way for you to know that you’re an ally is to do consistent allyship actions anyway even if no one will ever know it. Yeah. Very, very powerful.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): Well, Renu, any last words that you have on this. If there’s nothing else that people got from this conversation, what is that thing that you really want people to get on the individual and organizational level as it relates to allyship?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah, it’s a great closing question Queing and first, I want to say, I love the example that you shared about asking those kids that question because it’s so true. If you don’t fear anything, how will you know you’re brave and I think that’s really important. Bringing that too if there’s one thing that I wanted people to really know about allyship, that bravery also consists of acknowledging where you are on your own journey even if it’s not where you want to be. I think that’s what my students exemplified when they acknowledge that they’re not showing up the way they would’ve liked and maybe things happened in front of them that they could have spoken up and they didn’t. We have to be honest with ourselves. Honesty starts with the self-first and that’s the first step.

How are you going to get where you’re going? If you don’t even know where you’re starting from. That’s why I call allyship a journey. So, acknowledging where you are on the journey of allyship if you desire to be an ally, acknowledging where you are. Again, we can’t self-proclaim it so it’s not that we’re calling ourselves ally but if you desire to embrace the actions that allies undertake, where are you today? Have that courage to be honest with yourself without judgment. Because the thing is when we start judging ourselves, we’re taking energy away from actually doing something about it. So, without judgment acknowledge where you are on that journey and then decide where you want to be. We may not all be the ones who go out and march with protests. That may not be for everybody. That’s okay. We have to know ourselves, know the best ways that we can show up, know where we have privilege and think about opportunities where we can extend it to others.

We’re all unique and we all have unique ways that we can show up as allies. So, know where you are on the journey, know where you desire to be and then start taking action. Even if those are small steps, start taking them because it is about action and it is about how we’re going to get there. It is about how we are ultimately going to eradicate these systemic inequities that exist. So, as you are mapping out your journey, think about how you want to get to the systemic issues. As you are being an ally for a community, for others, for people, coworkers, whoever that is, how are you going to get to the systemic issues?

Queing (she/her/queen): Thank you so much Renu. I’m just reflecting even as you say that because I almost saw as you were talking a roadmap and I was wondering to myself, do I want to start right here? Of course, starting right here like you said, where you are. But then also looking down the road to where you want to be and then maybe even working your way back. So that’s just something for me to be thinking about knowing where you’re going.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah. If you don’t know where you’re going, any road will take you there. That’s the quote and any journey, to your point, you have to map it out. I use the roadmap analogy a lot when I’m doing DEI strategy, consulting, and all of that. First, you’ve got to know where you’re starting from. Second, you’ve got to know where you’re going, and then next you’ve got to figure out the best way to get there. It’s like our map apps that we plug into our phones.  Your journey may look different than mine. Your app may tell you to go a different way than mine does, but ultimately, it’s the best way for you given where you’re starting from, and that applies here too.

Queing (she/her/queen): Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you being here and thank you all for joining us. If you’ve not subscribed to Voices yet hit that subscribe button right there and do that. Thank you. We’ll see you next time.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Thank you.