The Power of Kindness in the Workplace

“If you change the way you see the world, your world changes immediately.”

Nick Ferraiolo, CPC, ELI-MP, founder of Elm City Coaching, and Energy Leadership Index – Master Practitioner

Kindness in the workplace goes beyond the mundane niceties of “Good morning” and “How was your weekend?” There is more intention to it than that. It could be something as simple as offering to help a coworker with a task or taking the time to listen to someone’s concerns. It could also be something bigger, like supporting a colleague who is navigating a major life transition or organizing a company-wide relief effort in support of a good cause. Our guest for this episode, Nick Ferrialo, says, “Being kind is being active and it’s more soul-based.”

Creating a culture of kindness in the workplace is essential as it can have a tremendous impact on employee wellbeing. It helps improve morale and motivation, too. Because when people feel like they are part of a supportive and caring workplace, they are more likely to be engaged in their work and committed to their company.

So how can you foster a culture of kindness in your own workplace?

In this episode, Nick Ferrialo, Energy Leadership Index Master Practitioner and founder of Elm City Coaching, joins us for a much-needed discussion on the importance of creating a workplace culture of kindness. Tune in to gain insight on what kindness in the workplace looks like, why it’s important, and how to foster a culture of kindness in your own workplace.

Watch the interview

Or read on for the transcript

Queing (she/her/queen): Welcome back to Voices. I’m Queing and I am so excited to share with you the voice that we have coming to you today, Nick Ferraiolo. Nick is the CEO and Founder of Elm City Coaching where he is, if I put it in my own words, this is not what the website says, but really shaking up and radicalizing… (Is that even a word?) The way people think so that they can change the way that they’re working for the better. So, please join me in welcoming Nick. Hey Nick.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Hi. How are you? Very nice to be here. I’m excited about our conversation.

Queing (she/her/queen): Yes. You know, you stood out to me. I got to meet Nick virtually. You ever see people and you decide, okay, yeah, this is one of my people. You’ve never met them in real life. But I saw Nick in a panel and everything that he said was so profound and had so much intention behind it. You’re such an intentional person in terms of the way that you interact with people. And you would think that we should all be like that. In an ideal world, we would be, but it’s not. It’s like when people say, hey, how are you doing? It’s almost like a salutation. Are you really ready to stop and talk about how a person’s actually doing and feeling? But you live your life and run your business and treat people with such intention and that’s just something that I admire about you from afar.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Thank you, and I think you’re spot on with that. So many people say, you know, how are you? How are you doing? And then when somebody’s actually explaining how they’re doing, they’re like, how long is this going to take? You’re really going to answer that question.

Queing (she/her/queen): Right. They’ve already gone on.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. It’s like I really didn’t care. I just thought it was nice to ask. It was “nice to ask.” The kind thing would be to wait, to pause and listen.

Queing (she/her/queen): Now let’s get into that. We have been raised to be nice. Be nice to your teachers. Be nice to your brother and sister. Okay. The neighbors, the new neighbors are coming by. You be nice. I tell my dogs when they’re being crazy with each other, be nice. So, be nice and we all know someone or have observed someone, in the media entertainment, politics, or whatever that we would not necessarily describe as a nice person, but you have seen them do nice things. So, I’m hearing you say that it’s nice to say to someone, hey, how are you doing? But it’s kind to be patient and listen. So, the two are not the same is what you’re saying.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): For me personally, nice is more passive surface level, to be pleasant, be agreeable. You don’t want to rock the boat. Being kind is being active and it’s more soul-based for me. It makes a difference. Kindness, I’ve got be kind tattooed on my arm right here and you could see it. I don’t know if we’re going to be recording video. I got this tattoo in the smack middle of me being… I was being corporate bullied because I was trans. Because I was, because I am transgender, but I was coming out in the workplace and people were so mean to me that I decided to get this tattoo. Just maybe they saw it and they would like to go, hmm. But it didn’t work, and I love the tattoo anyway. But being kind is intentionally seeking out who’s struggling and how could you help. I have a story if you don’t mind me telling a quick story.

Queing (she/her/queen): Please do, yeah.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): So, I take a two-mile, three-mile walk every day and I walk down a beautiful court street in Keene, New Hampshire. It’s beautiful and I walk down and all of a sudden, this woman was passing me every day. I used to work for her years ago. She didn’t recognize who I was because I transitioned, and she was a type of leader that was scary. Very, very like into her work, had to be done, blah, blah and she was mad all the time. I passed her a couple of times and I said, you got to touch base, Nick. I said, hi, I don’t want to say her name. Hi, bloop, how are you? I don’t know if you remember me, but I used to work for you. And she goes, oh my God. She goes, yeah. She goes, how are you? I said, I just want you to know that you were one of the best leaders that I’ve had. Why? Because you taught me things that made a difference. You taught me things that I used throughout my career that actually got me ahead of the game. I had a very successful career and a lot of it had to do with you. 

She literally said, oh, okay, and then just walked away. Two days later, I passed her again, she goes, hey Nick. I said, yo, how’s it going? She goes, nobody has ever, ever in my life said anything like that to me ever. She says you don’t even understand how that made me feel. She goes, it made me feel like I’ve never felt before. And here’s the kind of end of this story. Two weeks later, a friend of mine calls. This woman that I just said all that to, died in a head-on collision and the first thing I thought of was, I’m so glad that. She would’ve never heard kind words in her life, in her life. So, to reach out and to find people and really be vulnerable to be kind. So, sometimes you have to be vulnerable to be kind. So, that’s the story I want to say about searching out. When you see somebody struggling, just how are you, what’s going on? I appreciate you could change their life and her life was very short.

Queing (she/her/queen): Yeah. You know, not only does it take vulnerability, I think for the workplace for many people, it’s going to also take courage, especially when you consider that this is not something that people are taught in business schools and in leadership development about being kind. As a matter of fact, some people might even think that things like kindness and empathy really don’t have a place in certain rooms. That it might make you appear as a weak leader or someone who’s not serious enough, or strong leaders wouldn’t do that or those are the type of qualities that people would ascribe to maybe certain types of professions. Teachers can be kind. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. 

Queing (she/her/queen): Certain types of doctors or nurses can be kind. But people in law, in finance, in tech, some of these types of things. They should not be, or they may subscribe them to certain types of people. Maybe women in FIN should be kind, but that’s it.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him):  Yeah. 

Queing (she/her/queen): That’s not what strength is. So, what would you say to those who might think I have somebody on my team that’s struggling, but I don’t want them to think that I’m getting too personal or that I’m not a strong leader…?

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah, that’s very…

Queing (she/her/queen): If I asked the CEO

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): What a great point. What a great point. This is what it is. Kindness is a sign of weakness, is a limiting belief that somebody heard that once and they hung onto it. I go into corporations, and I shift the energy in companies and people go, what do you mean energy? Why are you bringing energy? They think about their high school physics class, or they think about a full moon ritual with everybody

Queing (she/her/queen): Right. Crystals and we’re burning sage.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): But think about two leaders. Okay. We’re going to think about the first leader that’s notorious about not being kind. Okay. Not being approachable and he’s walking into a team meeting. How engaged is that team? What’s the body language? Then think about…

Queing (she/her/queen): You’re sitting up straight. You’re not moving.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Exactly.

Queing (she/her/queen): You’re going to just sit there. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Now think about another leader, not just any other ordinary leader, a leader that shows vulnerability, kindness and you know what, if you don’t think you’re wonderful, five minutes in front of this leader, you’re going to think they are the best thing since sliced bread. What’s the productivity of that team and what’s the engagement in that team? When I was working in the corporate world, I ran a supply chain and that was a full-time job plus, and then when Procter & Gamble took over, there was the production, the production organization. People weren’t even showing up to work. That’s how bad it was under that leadership at the time. 

So, they came up to me and said, listen, could you take over manufacturing? We need somebody like you in there and see what you could do, and we can’t take away supply. I was like, oh my God, how am I going to do it? But I was a production worker at one point in my career. I knew exactly how they felt. The only thing I did is I said to everybody, I honor you and thank you so much for showing up every day and I know how hard it is to do your job and whatever you need from me my office is always open. Open door policy. We doubled production in the first month, okay and it was all because I was nice and kind.

Queing (she/her/queen): People want to feel valued. I’m picturing this as you tell that story because I know that there are some people who don’t even know how to receive kindness because it’s so rare. When you told the story about seeing the woman along your walk, it’s almost like she felt uncomfortable. She heard it. Okay, thank you. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): She kind of just went on. She needed to sit with that and then she told you, wow, I’ve never felt that. So, now you’ve got these people working in this space and they’re working hard. Who knows what they’ve got going on at home but they’re showing up? They’re doing a lot of, not just mental, but a lot of physical work and to be told something like that.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): You know, you bring yourself everywhere you go. You bring yourself everywhere you go. I was always asked to coach. There was this one gentleman… This is why I became a coach. There was this one guy that the VP of operation said, listen, Nick, you’ve got to talk to Mike. He’s raging in the warehouse and we’re going to fire him. You’re his last hope. Took him in my office and I said, what’s going on? So, he sits all back, all like shmuckatelli and he is all like, well, they’re all pissing me off. They’re pushing my buttons. I said, okay, well, since it’s your button and you created it, let’s try to figure out what that button is, and within two sessions he broke down crying. It was his gremlin, his bully within. He felt stupid.

He went from a pip to promotion in four months because actually his lenses that he was viewing the world through all the experience, all the leaders he had, all the family members that told him he was good for nothing changed. So, if you change the way you see the world, your world changes immediately. So now he was walking into work, seeing it differently, seeing it as a positive place and he knew that that button, he could throw that button out and which he did. So, that’s how I got my itch to coach and then I got my certification, a year course, and take it. But that changed me. That changed my lenses being bullied all the time. I was a lesbian, very masculine lesbian that I was fired at one job because I wasn’t dressing feminine enough and I thought I was dressing so feminine. I thought I was going to disintegrate every time I got dressed to go to work. 

Queing (she/her/queen): When you said that I cringed because I’m thinking. Renu, who you know who is our Head of DEI here. She shared with me about a time that wasn’t even long ago. I think maybe 15 to 20 years ago, I won’t name the organization, required women to wear pantyhose.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): Pantyhose or stockings, maybe that’s the better way to say it. I don’t know either way that and heels. What does that have to do with anything?

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): But it’s just again the way you look at the world. So, he was a kind guy. His bully within was louder than him. So, that was all good. I don’t find a kind leader weak at all. I’ve had many leaders that were kind and some leaders that weren’t. Now the ones that were not, I didn’t want to go into work every day, which was, hey I’m being bullied. Everybody’s telling new hires I’m transgender within three days and a head of HR said, well, you know what? This is your decision to do this so I can’t do anything about it.

Queing (she/her/queen): Wow. You know.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah, go ahead, please.

Queing (she/her/queen): You talked about how this organization, brought you in for you to deal with Mike, for you to fix him. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. 

Queing (she/her/queen): And we know that it’s not people all the time that need the fixing it’s the system, it’s the organization. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. 

Queing (she/her/queen): So, how can leaders of organizations, employers, HR teams that want to start to cultivate a culture of kindness, how should they be modeling that? What are some things that should be a part of their plan? How does that show up organization-wide, not just on the individual level? How are we able to impact organizations with this?

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. I mean, when you’re promoting people, new hire orientation, just a town hall, talk about what kindness looks like. Like you said, a lot of people don’t even know what it is. Talk about what does kindness look like? Maybe it looks like, hey, how’s your weekend? How was everybody’s weekend? How’s your son doing? I heard he was the other day. Being vulnerable as a leader, being vulnerable even a coworker to coworker. Respect people’s boundaries. What are boundaries? Do workshops on boundaries. Do workshops on dynamic relationships. I do an energy leadership thing that I was telling you about. I do an assessment. How do you show up every day? How do you show up to work when everything’s going great and then what happens when stress is introduced? Because think about it everybody’s all cool and all happy when everything’s going great and then you’re missing a deadline and all hell breaks loose. Where do you go? And usually, it’s to victim anger. Mean not kind. How could you remain kind under stress? So, have trainings on that? Teach kindness in the workplace.

Queing (she/her/queen): It has to be taught explicitly.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Because I think like you said before. We bring ourselves everywhere we go. You don’t know what people are struggling with. I had a worker of mine who you would’ve never known her husband was dying at home. Okay. She was so kind to people throughout the day. Now her husband did work at the company and then he got MS. He got Lou Gehrig’s Disease, sorry and he was dying at home, and we would hear her on the phone going, don’t worry, I’ll be home.  I called them. They’re going to help you with your breathing machine. He couldn’t breathe and she was talking to him, hangs up the phone and says, how could I help you? I don’t know how she did it but that’s what she was. That’s who she was. She was just that way. Some people need to be taught that, but some people are that. So, how did she?

Queing (she/her/queen): Nick, how do you challenge leaders? Have you ever gone into an organization where the leader is just a tyrant, a toxic hot mess? 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): How have you dealt with that? Have you had to deal with the bullies that you used to deal with? How do you help them to see themselves? Because there may be people watching this, hearing this, that as you’re sharing these examples, they’re thinking, oh, I need to do more of that with my team. They may not be rude or bullies, but for those who may be able to acknowledge that they have been tough on people what would you say to them or how can people who work with them let their needs be made known?

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): As a life coach, to the person that is that way, one word. Why? Why? Why do you feel the need to get angry? Why? And then what it usually is was there ever a time that you didn’t react that way? Well, yeah, I didn’t react that way back when I was in my mid-twenties, because I didn’t have all this pressure. Okay. So, what happened between your mid-twenties and now for you to react that way and then teach them other ways to respond to stress, not react. Do you know what I’m saying? 

Queing (she/her/queen): I hear you.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): I’m thinking of a person who’s being bullied. If  Nick back then, if you had an opportunity to talk with Nick then, and Nick is saying, I don’t want to say, baby, Nick, but younger Nick is saying, I’m about ready to tell these people off.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Okay, yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): What do I need to say? Because they’re already at you. Does a person who is being the target have room? How do they advocate for a kind culture for themselves and for other people too? Because they are going to listen to you because they know that that’s why you’re there. But when the coach is not there, when the cameras are not rolling,

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Exactly

Queing (she/her/queen): When the customers are not watching, clients are not watching. How can the individual speak truth to power within their organizations about kindness?

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. You know, it starts at the tippity-top, and HR is very, very critical when it comes to the culture of the organization and follow the leader, that one person that’s getting bullied. For me, I’m going to be totally honest. I couldn’t do anything. I needed my job. I didn’t have HR to back me. I didn’t have any of the VPs to back me or even my boss. He was the worst one at the time. But then that other company acquired us and said, no more. We do tolerate this. We don’t tolerate bullying. We honor everybody that works here and if you have a problem with that, you can leave or if you really have a problem with that, and you’re not correcting yourself, then we will have you leave. If you didn’t check that box that you were not a bully or not, not discriminating about anybody, race, diversity, anything, then you didn’t work there. That was just it.

Queing (she/her/queen): It had to come. Now, I see what you’re saying. Leadership has to model that, enforce that, ensure that for people.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Absolutely. Again, because the person that you’re bullying might be going home and getting even worse. That’s how it was for me. I was being bullied in the workplace. It made me so afraid. I was afraid and scared and alone during my transition that at one point I didn’t leave my apartment because people were outing me. They didn’t know how many people. How about if somebody outed me to hated transgender people. They wouldn’t have seen a really cool Italian guy. da, da, da. They could have followed me home and killed me because transgender people get killed. So, again, I wasn’t just transitioning at work. I was transitioning in my community which wasn’t fun at all in Keene, New Hampshire, not fun at all.

Queing (she/her/queen): Oh, and that. So, we talked about people who are in the organization, whether they’re the target or whether they want to be an ally. That’s something we should also touch on too because you needed an ally and an advocate at that time. But what are your thoughts towards people who are in the job search? We know this is an era of The Great Resignation and a lot of people are rethinking what they really need for work and they’re asking for what they need. How can we detect what is happening in that organization before you even get in? What types of questions should be asked to help people uncover if there is actually a culture of kindness or empathy if people really are about their values.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Very good question. Because last October, I looked for a full-time job. Passion doesn’t pay the bills until Elm City Coaching takes off, which it is. But this is what I did. Sat down, I was my interview, and the guy goes, oh my God, what a great resume. We’d love to have you on board. Oh my God, you do so much for the organization. I said, quick question, I’m a transgender guy. I need to understand how you, not only you but everybody that works here or is going to react to that because that’s who I am. And if you can’t accept that, please tell me now because I’d rather sleep in my car with my dog than work at a place that doesn’t honor me because I will never do that to me again. So, just really seriously ask the question. 

Queing (she/her/queen): Straightforward.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Do you have an anti-bullying policy on LGBTQ+? How do you feel about single parents having to work from home maybe a couple of days a week because their kids are sick? Anything that you’re worried about, ask the question right upfront in your first interview.

Queing (she/her/queen): Hey, may as well. They need to know.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Well, you need to understand again.

Queing (she/her/queen): They need 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): I’d rather not work at a place. Listen, I’d rather not work at a place, no matter how good the pay or whatever. I know how it feels not to be honored and having to portray myself every day and for me, the worst form of self-abuse is this betrayal. Knowing how I was going to feel but having to go into that building every day, I’m never going to do that to me again. I love myself now too much.

Queing (she/her/queen): Or to feel that there’s something about yourself that you have to hide. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): A couple of things are coming to mind. I was a part of an interview team. This was not at Talking Talent. This was somewhere else. We will let them remain nameless and after this candidate that we had we were debriefing and someone made the comment about their age, how they were older, and how that’s probably just not going to work. Now what they did not know in saying this, was that the person that they were describing as older that I was older than that person was, but they had no idea how old I was, because of people’s silly ideas about what certain ages look like. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. 

Queing (she/her/queen): They just assumed that I was younger, although I’m not. In that moment I thought to myself, okay. I shouldn’t mention how old I am then. Then another friend of mine here at Talking Talent talked about some statistics she saw recently about ageism in the workplace and that if you are over 45, 45, and older, you need to basically find somewhere and get there and stay and just kind of deal with it, because it’s going to be harder for you to find work after a certain age.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. 

Queing (she/her/queen): So, I am here for this straightforward approach in an interview where we should be asking things about what is your anti-bullying policy? Even along these lines, I would want to know how are people mentoring and sponsoring…

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. Yep.

Queing (she/her/queen): …people who are underrepresented in leadership. What is your plan to advance women? How many black people are on your board? How are you all involved in #StopAsianHate? I want to make sure that you didn’t just put Stop Asian Hate.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Right. Right.

Queing (she/her/queen): What did you do? Yesterday… Was it yesterday or the day before? We saw a lot of performative allyship for International Women’s Day but if you were to look at some of these leaderships, they have very few, if any women in leadership.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. 

Queing (she/her/queen): So, yeah asking straight up.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. It was funny because I was on a committee for hires at my last job and I would take the candidates and talk about our culture, our credo.

Queing (she/her/queen): Okay. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): So, I’m interviewing somebody in my office and the guy goes, well, I went to… I forgot, one of the Ivy League schools, I think it was Harvard or Dartmouth. He was like, where did you guys go? I said, I didn’t. He goes, you didn’t go to college. The way he said that. I said I don’t want him working here. He judged me because I didn’t go to college. When I would sit with all the other leaders of the organization and some leaders from Proctor & Gamble would fly in from Cincinnati and they’d go, okay, introduce yourself, and everybody would introduce themselves and then put what college? By the time it got to me, my heart would go, boom, boom. I said, my name is Nick Ferraiolo. I run these two organizations and didn’t go to college, went right into the workforce. That’s what I did. But it would be like, I was almost ashamed. I was almost ashamed that I didn’t, but now it’s like, okay, whatever.

Queing (she/her/queen): Right. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Does that person, that candidate meet your culture, and then when we flip it, does that organization meet your values? Don’t work there. If, one thing’s not checked off, don’t work there.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Right.

Queing (she/her/queen): You might say it might be easier to say that but again, the pay is not going to matter if you don’t feel that you could be true to yourself or you don’t feel comfortable in the workplace because listen, people, are blown away when at my age. I’m 59. Okay. So, when I was looking for a job, I’m like thinking the same thing. Oh my God. If they ever knew my age. But they don’t ask that and then when I say, yeah, I’m 59 people go, you’ve got to be kidding me. You’re 59. But that also for me made me go oh-oh, ageism. Am I going to have to now deal with that too? Damn!

Queing (she/her/queen): Right

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Now that I think I passed. I can be very stealthy in a new job, but I choose not to be because I want to be me, and for the other transgender people out there that we should be able to speak our truth.

Queing (she/her/queen): Exactly. If at any time and I guess whether a person has been in a situation where they’re looking for a role right now, or even within the organization that they are in. If you have to compromise who you are, you’re paying them. They’re not even paying you.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Exactly.

Queing (she/her/queen): You know.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Exactly. Listen. Like we were talking about bad leaders. Leaders could be really great. They could produce, produce, produce. But you’re taking 18 souls a day. What good is it? Do you know what I’m saying? We’ve got to think about kindness in the workplace as everybody just breathes and be kind. Get your work done. Every Friday at two o’clock I used to say to my organization, okay, stop. We’re having name that tune. We just got out there with my phone and we used to play name that tune. Okay. Everybody would walk by from other departments and by the end, I had like 30 people. I had the CEO, the COO, I had all people from quality people because it was a fun thing to do. 

Queing (she/her/queen): Yeah. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): We laughed just as much as anything and supply chain, that organization had the most stress. If we didn’t get it in, they didn’t sell it. Please believe me. But we pee-pee laughed every day and then they couldn’t wait to come to work. Imagine if I was a strict leader who would want to come to work. The stress of the job alone, and then you had a leader on you. They produce so much, and we had fun doing it. It was because of that lightheartedness.

Queing (she/her/queen): Yeah. People need that. There’s too much happening in the world and in people’s homes, just being kind. As sad as that story is that you told earlier, I’m happy to hear that like you said, this person did not leave the earth without being appreciated and the idea that we might be the only voice of kindness towards someone else. The other thing as we begin to wrap up on the kindness versus nice. People can tell when you’re just being nice. We’ve all experienced when someone was just being nice and was doing something versus when you know that they were. I’m kind of giggling because some people are going to be like, okay, whatever. 

I was in one of my happy places yesterday, one of the most magical places on earth, Dollar Tree yesterday. I get to the counter with my wonderful finds, and I realize I don’t have my money. I just ran out and I’m like, oh my goodness, I’m so sorry. You can go on and ring her up that was behind me. So, now I come to this Dollar Tree all the time and the woman says, we’ll take care of it for you. I thought she meant putting the things away because you know how sometimes you get things and you’re like, oh my goodness, because nothing was bagged or anything. So, I started to walk out, and she says, ma’am, we’re going to take care of it today. She had put it in a bag and handed it to me. What? 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): That was an act of kindness. Someone has to pay for that. That takes some effort. Now, when we think about it in the workplace kindness may not have an actual financial cost, but it might cost you your time. We started this with you saying, asking how someone is. You may have to physically wait and be patient and listen to them.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yeah. I mean, I think first of all you have to be conscious to be kind because you have to really not be unconscious. I had a time in my life where I was kicked out of a relationship. It’s a whole other podcast and I had to live in a hotel, and I didn’t have money and my stomach would growl at work. There was a coworker that said came by and said, I’m going to buy you lunch until you could afford it. Okay. Sometimes I get emotional because I didn’t want to ask anybody. I was waiting to go home and eat my two-pizza bite-sized rations every night. Okay. She would go to Burger King and get me a big boy’s meal every day. It was before my transition. I was like, I’m getting a big boy meal and it was kind. I still know her. I stop her and even when she’s around people, I’m like, I want everybody to know who she is. This is what this woman did for me. Do you know what I’m saying?

Queing (she/her/queen): Yes, I do.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): So, it’s like, wow, a coworker was conscious enough to hear my stomach growl and vulnerable enough to come up to me with courage because she didn’t know how I was going to take it and offer me food. I walked by some two young people in a grocery store saying, we need Pampers, we can’t buy milk. I found them, gave them $40, and said go get whatever you need. I don’t know them, but we have to help each other. That’s kindness. Kindness is just not saying, oh, well, why did they have a kid? This is what somebody told me when I told the story. Well, they shouldn’t have had a kid if they couldn’t afford the kid. What are you talking about? If I didn’t have the $40, I would’ve given them 20. If I didn’t have 20, I would’ve given them five, I would’ve given them a dollar.

Queing (she/her/queen): Right.

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): We have to be conscious of people’s struggles around us.

Queing (she/her/queen): Right, and that part. I thank you so much for your time. This is a wonderful way to end this. I like that you said, I say to people, let me tell you who she is because kindness reveals a lot about who you are. Anybody can be nice. Like I told you, I won’t even call the name of this leader who did the nicest thing that I saw on Instagram. Did the nicest thing, but that’s not who they are at their core because they’re hurting people? Who you are can be revealed through acts of kindness?

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Yep. Beautiful.

Queing (she/her/queen): Thank you so much, Nick. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): Oh, thank you. 

Queing (she/her/queen): I was here, and I can’t wait to go listen to this. 

Nick Ferraiolo (he/him): I had a blast. Thank you.

Queing (she/her/queen): Thank you.