Building & Maintaining a Diverse Workforce

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Andrea Palten (she/her): Hello, today we’re talking to Renu Sachdeva about building and maintaining a diverse workforce. Renu is a DEI Executive Coach at Talking Talent. She has her own coaching company and she’s a professor. Yes, she’s very, very busy and today she’s talking to us about diversity equity inclusion and how that relates to the workforce. So Renu first, I want to hear more about what you’re doing and you’re a busy lady. So, I want to hear all about the details and what experience you have in the DEI space.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah, absolutely Andrea and thank you so much for that introduction. I am busy. It’s a good busy. I enjoy all of it and I love what I do. As you mentioned, I am a coach in the DEI space, and I think that’s a very unique combination. I’m not the only one of course, but that’s something that, you know, previously I had been in the DEI space as a DEI strategist and leader for a large organization leading our DEI strategy within the geographic area that I covered I’m working with our leadership and that was a great area to work in as a DEI practitioner. As a coach, I think what that added element brings in is to really bring in the human element in terms of working with people and helping to reach people’s hearts and minds in this space because ultimately making a shift through diversity equity and inclusion comes down to us as human beings and human behavior. So that’s why I think that combination is really powerful. I love doing this work in this space with Talking Talent and serving our clients through that as well as my individual clients. Of course, as you mentioned, I’m an adjunct professor and I create and teach diversity equity and inclusion courses for undergraduate business students at the University of Houston.

Andrea Palten (she/her): That’s awesome. So, I love that you’re really immersed in the field, For teaching and coaching can you tell the listener what the difference is?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Oh yeah. Great question. You know, they’re actually similar in a lot of ways, but in teaching it’s about conveying knowledge, helping to educate somebody in an area that they’re not familiar with. Coaching on the other hand is about recognizing that your coaching client has the answers. They are the subject matter experts of themselves and it’s working with them to help them uncover their own underlying belief systems, bringing the unconscious to the conscious, and then recognizing what are those unconscious beliefs. Especially in the area of diversity, equity, and inclusion what beliefs do we hold about others who are different than us? What beliefs do we hold about ourselves and our own culture and how that shows up in the workplace? So coaching is very much a lot more and getting to those belief systems, There’s a learning element to it because you learn about yourself and then of course, with teaching, as I mentioned, that’s about conveying knowledge in a subject matter area like DEI.

Andrea Palten (she/her): Yeah. I love that. I love that definition that you gave. I think that sometimes people don’t know the difference between getting it taught to them or having a coach to speak to them because it is very different. So, let’s talk about the diverse workplace. Why is it so important for an organization to have a diverse workspace and obviously why is it so important for underrepresented staff? Okay. I’m going to redo this one. Hold on. I didn’t like the way I wrote it. Let’s start with having a diverse workplace. I’m just going to read it. I think it’s going to be easier. All right. Are you ready?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yes.

Andrea Palten (she/her): Three, two, one. Let’s start with why having a diverse workplace is so important. Renu, please tell us why this is so important for the staff and underrepresented groups and also for the companies.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. So, I’ll start with the companies first. So, companies have been increasingly focused on diversifying their workforce and hiring more underrepresented talent, meaning looking at the demographics of their workforce, seeing which groups are not well-represented whether that’s on the basis of gender like women, whether that’s on the basis of race, ethnicity, certain groups that are not well-represented in the workforce and wanting to increase that. There’s been a lot of talks. There’s a lot of studies out there around why this is good for business. The studies show that businesses that have more diverse workforces, more diverse leadership teams are more profitable. They’re more innovative. They can serve their customers better, but really, I feel strongly that it’s time for us to go beyond the business case as to why this is important for companies.

Of course, those are all there. We know that if most businesses are for-profit organizations. Yes, we want to look at the bottom line but there really gets down to an intrinsic question of values. Most businesses in this day and age are values-driven organizations or at least they are aspiring to be values-driven organizations. When you think about diversity, equity, and inclusion and the societal correlation of this topic to what happens in society, this is a huge value-driven area of having the workforce of an organization of a company be reflective of the demographics of society which most of them aren’t at this point.

If you look purely at numbers and I’m a numbers person and you look at the percentages, for example, based on the race of percentages in the country, in the United States if that’s where you’re watching and then you compare it to the demographics of large organizations or even the leadership team of large organizations, they’re still predominantly white male. Not all but many, and so that’s where in terms of for businesses and getting down to being values-driven and knowing their why it’s really about thinking about, well, why aren’t they reflective of the society at large and what more can organizations be doing to be reflective of that and to be more inclusive of these groups. So, for organizations that are, I think a very important reason to be looking at diversifying their workforce. For people, employees of underrepresented groups, why is it important to work for a company that has a diverse workforce?

When you are part of an underrepresented group and I have been there as an Indian American woman and you come into an organization, and you come into a team meeting or your department or whatever, you are acutely aware of being a minority in the room. You look around and you realize that you may be the only person who looks like you in the room. You may be the only person in the room who has the lived experience of being a woman or being a racial minority. There’s this intrinsic sense of isolation that comes with it and so the more diverse a workforce is, the more as people from underrepresented groups come into the workforce, they will find others who look like them. They will find others who have similar life experiences, not the same, but similar and they will start to feel more of a sense of community.

Now, with that said, that doesn’t mean that people who are in underrepresented groups should only connect with others who are underrepresented groups. Obviously, you want the organization, for everybody to work together and everybody to be cohesive but it mitigates that sense of only-ness, that sense of isolation that somebody can feel when they come into an organization, into a team and they look around and they see nobody who looks like them, nobody who identifies like them and you get this sense of, well, I don’t know if anybody will get it, anybody will get how I feel. So, that’s why it’s really important for organizations to diversify. But I will say diversity, isn’t the only answer and that’s why we talk about equity and inclusion too because it’s not enough to just diversify the workforce.

Andrea Palten (she/her): Can you expand on that? So, equity and inclusion, what is the difference between that and just diversifying the workforce?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Absolutely. So, diversity is about the demographics. Pure and simple it’s the numbers. Diversity means how diverse is your workforce when you look at the demographics of your workforce. Inclusion, the I of DEI is the culture. It’s about whether you have created a sense of belonging for all of your employees, not just certain groups. So, you don’t want the in-groups and out-groups, people who feel like they’re part of and people who don’t. There’s a really well-known quote by Verna Myers that I like a lot where she said, “Diversity is being invited to the party; inclusion is being asked to dance.” I actually modify that a little bit. So, I like to say diversity is being invited to the party; inclusion is about jumping out onto the dance floor and dancing like it’s your own party.

It’s really feeling that sense of belonging that you feel safe, that psychological safety to be yourself, to share all aspects of who you are with your colleagues, with your coworkers at work, to be able to feel empowered, to share your ideas and to make mistakes without fear of retribution. That’s really creating that sense of belonging to feel like you’re part of the team. Then equity is more about systems. So, we talk about equity versus equality a lot and equity is about mitigating. Equality is about giving everybody the same thing like treating everybody exactly the same. But we’re not all exactly the same and because we live in a society where systemic inequities exist when you come into the workforce those inequities come through as well. So, when you are a business, it’s really thinking about giving people what they need.

I once heard somebody who’s a parent use this example. He has three kids and he said, “I can’t give all my kids exactly the same thing. They are very unique individuals. So, I need to know who they are and give them what they each need from me.” I think that applies, even though companies aren’t parents and there’s not meant to be a paternal or parental approach to it. But at the same time when you think about equity, it’s about recognizing the needs of individuals within your organization and giving people what they need to be successful even if that’s different from the person next to them. So, that’s one element of equity.

The other element of equity, that’s really important that is low, that needs to be looked at is any systems and processes within the organization. So, like promotions, compensation, deciding at the end of the year when you do performance reviews, who gets what rating at the end of the year, because we know unconscious biases come into play, and this is not about unconscious bias and most companies have done a lot of training around this. But unconscious biases can impact equity and those decisions that we’re making about who do we promote? Who do we pay more to? Who do we give the better rating to? That’s why that’s another lens that we have to apply to equity and when you have a diverse workforce and you’re diversifying it becomes even more important because people want to be recognized for the contributions they’re making to the organization.

Andrea Palten (she/her): Yeah, for sure. So, what do leaders and managers really need to do to increase and sustain diversity in the workplace and also equity? So, I know the way that you explained it which I loved, I’d like to speak on both of them. So how can leaders,’ managers really increase and sustain diversity? Then also once people are there how can they make them feel more included so it’s an inclusive organization?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah. It’s a great question and I love that you homed in on leaders and managers. I want to speak to that part of the question first because really when it comes to creating a sense of inclusion it’s not the leader sitting at the top of the organization who do that. They can set the tone, they can set the agenda to say, hey, this is a priority, and we want to do it. But if you think about you as an employee or me as an employer or anybody else, your day-to-day experience of how you feel about the company and your job and that sense of belonging has to do with your manager, the people you report to, the team that you work with day in and day out. That’s where that sense of inclusion starts.

So, a lot of times companies who are focusing on DEI, they’re kind of sitting at the 30,000-foot view because they’re creating a strategy as they should and they’re creating all these elements and ideas and processes and initiatives. Those are all wonderful but as an organization, if you want to embed this into your culture and you want it to be sustainable, you really have to get those line managers on board. The people who are working with the employees day in and day out are who are creating the experience that they are having at work and that’s where it starts. I touched on some of these elements of the how in terms of creating a sense of psychological safety. What does that mean? That means creating a space where people feel like they can be themselves, bring their whole selves to work. That phrase gets thrown around a lot but what does that mean?

It means being able to speak openly about your identity without fear of being judged, without fear of people treating you differently, or making a sense of, we call it othering. Making you feel like you’re different somehow. Yes, you are different but not making it feel like a negative thing. Recognizing that we’re all different and sincerely wanting to learn about those differences. That’s what helps create a sense of psychological safety. Also, as I mentioned, giving people room to make mistakes. This is an interesting one because it can go to a broader leadership discussion too of how you lead and do your people feel like you can make mistakes. But when somebody is in an underrepresented group, mistakes tend to carry more weight.

There’s a higher fear of retribution because quite honestly, throughout our lives, it has felt like for many people, I won’t speak for everyone. But for many people when you are in an underrepresented group, it feels like mistakes carry more weight. Not only do they carry more weight, but then in some ways it’s indicative of your group as a whole, that you’re somehow representing your group as a whole and if you fail, then that’s going to create a negative impression for other people like you in those minds. So, that can take away from that sense of psychological safety. So, making it clear as a leader, as a manager, that it’s okay to make mistakes and we’re all here to learn and grow. The other thing I would say is having an open dialogue around what is going on in the world when bad things are happening, but also celebrating.

So, we know that there are a lot of difficult things happening in the world and I’ll give you an example. At my previous employer when there were a series of race-related, so white police officers who had killed black men and women, we had candid conversations around how people were feeling, and those were difficult. The first time we had them in 2016 was probably one of the first times that many people had participated in a conversation like that. Because for so long it was taboo to talk about race, religion, and politics at work. It was the unspoken, unwritten rule, but the reality is people were hurting. People are still hurting by what’s going on in the world. We’re in the middle of a pandemic.

We have to be able to talk about these things and leaders and managers have the unique ability to create a forum and create an environment where people feel comfortable and safe to talk about these things. Then, like I said, the good things too. I’m Hind and I just celebrated Janmashtami and I know I shared that at work with my colleagues and some of them didn’t know what it, what it was. It was an opportunity to talk about it, but I felt safe to do so. I felt safe to share something about me and my religion which is personal to me, and it is all about creating that kind of an environment.

Andrea Palten (she/her): So, I want to dive in deeper here. What does that look like? So, in 2016 you said that you were at an organization where these conversations were being had openly and you felt safe. Did the manager initiate it? Did the staff initiate it? I’d like to know the process. Should the managers come in and say, okay, this just happened in the news let’s all sit down and talk about it, or is there a broader strategy?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah, it’s a great question. So, there are a couple of different ways to do it and actually, I created a framework that I use, and I teach in my class called SHARE which I can walk through quickly, the S stands for State the intention of the conversation. So, to go back to your question, Andrea, when we had those conversations, they were very structured. So, they were facilitated. I was one of the facilitators as well as one of the partners who was leading the office and another, our HR leader and we facilitated this conversation. We created the space for people to talk. What I mean by facilitated was we set the stage for it and then we let people share and talk but there’s also an unstructured way to do it.

You don’t always have to gather people in a room and make it a big formal thing. As we know, water cooler conversations happen. Although in the virtual world that we currently live in that doesn’t always pan out that way. We don’t have the water cooler conversations but when you hop onto a meeting the first five minutes or the last five minutes, people talk sometimes about what’s going on in the world around them. So, stating the intention of the conversation of the SHARE that very much can be formally done or it can be informally done. If you feel like the conversation is derailing, say, okay, hold on let’s get clear about why we’re talking about this and what the intention of the conversation is. The reason that step is really important is because people need to be on the same page and I always say it’s dialogue, not debate.

That is a really crucial distinction to make because all too often especially in the polarized role that we’re living in today, things feel like a debate. We’re trying to convince someone else to our point of view. But really in the workplace for it to be a respectful and meaningful conversation it needs to be about dialogue for me to understand how you are viewing the world and what you were experiencing and for you to understand how I’m viewing the world and what I’m experiencing. I do not need to convince you of my point of view. That’s not the goal of the conversation and conversely, you don’t need to convince me. Now if we shift our understanding of our thinking because of that conversation, great. But that’s not the purpose and that’s why that S is really important.

In the interest of time, I won’t go through all of SHARE but the other one that I do want to touch on the other letter is the R and that is about respecting each other’s truth, and that ties to what I just shared. It’s really important at the start of these conversations if you are the facilitator or the leader, who’s holding that space to make it clear to everybody to respect each other’s truth because the way you see things is your truth. The way I see things is my truth. They may be different. That’s truth with a lowercase t because, for both of us, that is our truth. Then there’s the truth with a capital T like the earth is round those indisputable, proven facts. That’s different. That’s the stuff that’s evidence-based, science-based et cetera. But when it comes to our belief systems recognize that what you believe is your truth and what I believe is my truth and for each of us it’s true but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a universal truth.

Andrea Palten (she/her): Yes. Okay. I love that. So, if people want to reach out to you and learn more about SHARE where can they find you online?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): They can find me on LinkedIn. I have a pretty distinctive name. I don’t know how many other Renu Sachdevas are out there, but you can search for Talking Talent or University of Houston, and I will pop up with my name.

Andrea Palten (she/her): Awesome. I know people are going to want to know the rest. So, I wanted to make sure that they get that opportunity to talk to you directly. So, how does hiring, recruiting, and onboarding factor into all this?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yeah. So, you know, if you think about the employee life cycle when an employee comes into an organization, it’s a circle, right, and basically, it starts with the recruiting and the hiring and the onboarding. Then you go on through that circle in terms of development growth, and then hopefully not coming to off-boarding but that’s that end of the cycle. Hiring and recruiting is at the beginning. If you want to create a diverse workforce and bring in more employees from underrepresented groups, it starts with hiring. What I would say for companies to really think about is how are you attracting that talent? You can ask any recruiter today. It is an incredibly competitive field for talent especially with the great resignation going on right now in 2021. It’s an incredibly competitive field for talent. It’s even more competitive for people who are in underrepresented groups because most companies are trying to diversify their workforce right now.

So, what is going to make people who are in underrepresented groups want to come work for you? Do you have a brand as an organization to be an inclusive company, to be a company that cares about these issues? Not just for the bottom line, but somebody who sincerely cares about doing the right thing. We have a very savvy workforce out there and with things like LinkedIn that we just talked about and the internet, it’s very easy for people to connect with one of your current employees or do research on an organization. So, really, as a company, you have to live your values to be able to attract underrepresented talent. Then comes the onboarding piece.

Onboarding is critical. I spent years in HR, and we talked a lot about onboarding because onboarding really sets the foundation for an employee’s experience at your organization. Just like we say, first impressions matter. Onboarding is the first impression an employee really gets off the company. Hiring and recruiting they kind of know they’re being wined and dined and all of that but when they come on as an employee of the organization that’s when they get a sense to really know what it feels like to work for your company. So, during that onboarding process, especially for people who are in underrepresented groups. Again, for those who may look around in the virtual meeting room or in the actual meeting room and not see many people who look like them, it’s critical that you give them a sense of welcome and belonging, that they are reached out to.

I’ve heard stories of people who on their first day, nobody talked to them. Nobody reached out to them and especially in this virtual environment, it’s not going to happen organically. If people are in the office yeah, somebody is going to walk by their desk say hello, oh, you’re the new person, welcome. That doesn’t happen in a virtual environment. So, you have to be really intentional about helping people feel welcome especially if they don’t have a built-in network already. That’s the other thing for people from underrepresented groups. A lot of times, and this is a much longer conversation around systemic inequities and all that. But a lot of times when they come into an organization, they don’t know other people. Then when you have people who are in well-represented groups, they often come in and they already have a built-in network. They know so-and-so and so-and-so already. That’s not the case, always with people in underrepresented groups.

So as an organization, as an HR team, or whoever’s responsible for your onboarding, you have to think about being really intentional to help these people feel welcome and help connect them to a network when they come in the door. If you have employee resource groups, let them know about those so they can find other like-minded people from similar identity groups, with shared backgrounds that they can connect with. But really introduce them to your organization and also to your DEI efforts so they know how they can get involved if they want to.

Andrea Palten (she/her): Love that. Love it. So, I have one last question, Renu for you. What are the best ways to support employees in minority groups?

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Yes. I love that question and of course, it’s never going to be an exhaustive list, but I know you said best ways. So, what I’ll share, the first thing is listen and listen to understand. The thing about people who are in underrepresented groups is a lot of times we don’t necessarily feel seen or heard. It’s not always intentional, it’s unconscious again because we don’t always walk in with these built-in networks. So, if you are a leader who wants to support employees in these underrepresented groups reach out and listen. Don’t assume that you know how they’re feeling or what their experience is like. Listen and then acknowledge that their experience may be different than yours or even different than some of their peers are having who are not in underrepresented groups.

That really helps you get to know who your employees are at a human level because even if people are in underrepresented groups, it’s important to remember, no group is homogenous. Even those who are in the well-represented groups, they’re not homogenous, everybody is different. So, we can’t make assumptions that, oh, all women are like this, or all Indian people are like this. You really have to get to know your employees on an individual level and that is what makes them feel seen and feel heard. The other thing and I’ve touched on this a lot, but I’ll say it one more time because it’s so important is to create that psychologically safe environment. That is what helps you thrive. That is what helps them contribute at their highest levels and that’s ultimately best for them and best for your organization too then third giving them opportunities to learn and grow.

It sounds kind of obvious, but at the same time, there are numerous studies, and everything’s based in studies because I teach, and I love research. But there are many, many studies and qualitative antic anecdotes and all of that, that talk about how, because of unconscious bias people who are in leadership positions often give the plum opportunities, the really good opportunities to others who are like them, that’s similarity bias. So, people who are in underrepresented groups aren’t getting those same opportunities because again they don’t have that built-in network. Leaders don’t look like them and so they’re not thought of when those opportunities come around. So, as a leader to make sure you’re supporting employees who are in these underrepresented groups make sure that you’re giving them good opportunities to grow and develop. They have the talent or else they wouldn’t be there, but they need the opportunity to nurture and grow that talent. So, it’s really important to ensure your processes are fair and that bias is not influencing them.

The last thing I’ll say here is, be an ally. There’s a lot of discussion around allyship. We actually do training on this topic at Talking Talent and workshops on this topic because it’s so critical. But allyship is to really walk beside people who are in underrepresented groups, take on their struggles as their own. So, this is kind of like that next-level stuff. It’s something we can all do because of things in the workplace that happen like unconscious biases, microaggressions, et cetera, employees who are in underrepresented groups need support. They need allyship.

 Absolutely they are strong, and they can stand up for themselves, but it can also get exhausting. To know that there are people within the organization who stand with them, you can help speak up or elevate their voice when it needs to be elevated. That’s a really powerful thing to do and so I highly encourage anyone. Who’s interested in the topic of allyship to learn more, reach out to me, reach out to Talking Talent, because as an organization if you are sincerely dedicated to advancing in this area, allyship is crucial and it’s crucial for leaders to engage in.

Andrea Palten (she/her): This was such great advice, Renu. I really appreciate your time. We definitely have to have you back for more. I just think the work that you’re doing is amazing. I’ve heard from people that have been coached by you how amazing you are and how you’ve really made a difference in their lives. Not only their work lives but their personal lives. So, we’re glad that you exist and we’re glad that you were here with us today. Thank you so much.

Renu Sachdeva (she/her): Thank you so much, Andrea. It was my pleasure.