Space & Grace in the Workplace

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Queing (she/her/queen): Hi, thank you so much for being back for another episode of Voices and you’re going to be really glad that you tuned into this one. We’re talking about Space and Grace in the Workplace. Yeah, I know it sounds cool to say it, but what is it, and then what is our role to help create a culture where people feel safe to just show up as their authentic selves? How do we create that for other folks and for ourselves too? Our guest today is Anu Mandapati. She is the VP Head of Inclusion for Talking Talent, and she’s a respected and renowned leader in this space that we’re just so grateful to have her, to have her back actually.

This is not her first time on Voices and of all of the amazing things I can say about her, and I’ll let her talk about herself in a little bit. What I really admire about Anu. What I really admire about you, let me just tell you directly. It’s how thoughtful you are with the way you present information about DEI, which for some people is a “sensitive topic.” I’m using air quotes for an example, something we’re going to talk about later. But you’re able to meet people right where they are in their DEI journey, and I really appreciate that about you. I know that leaders who are watching this, decision-makers who are watching this, they’re going to appreciate that too. So, you all, please help me welcome Anu.

Anu Mandapati: Thank You.

Queing (she/her/queen): Alright, let people know who you are?

Anu Mandapati: Well, as you just shared so I lead our DEI practice at Talking Talent and DEI has been at the foundation of everything that I’ve done in my career. So, I’ve been in mental health, focused on leadership development and executive and team coaching, and at the heart of it is always DEI specifically with regards to leadership. Inclusive leadership is leadership. It’s not something separate. So, personally and professionally this is my passion and my purpose, and I love talking about space and grace. I’m excited to be here.

Queing (she/her/queen): Thank you. You know, earlier I did the air quotes. Remember that you all when I said “sensitive topics” because one of the things I know from just listening to you and learning from you Anu is that there are things that people consider to be sensitive topics, or these are delicate things, or you’ve got to have a courageous conversation. But we might need to take another look at the way that we’re even setting up to share. Could you talk a little bit more about that and what that has to do with space and grace?

Anu Mandapati: Yeah, absolutely. It’s really about just setting up the conversation to make sure that you are bringing your best self and that they are also able to receive that message in the best way. So, one thing I think about is what’s the energy that I’m bringing in and really making sure that I’m in the right space so I can have an objective conversation and really ensure that I know what is it that I want to achieve from this conversation. So, that’s going to be my driver when I’m in the conversation because regardless of whatever else might be happening in that conversation if I know what I want that outcome to be, that’s going to help me shift and navigate. Also making sure the other person is in their best place to receive whatever the information might be.

So, I think about time of day. I think about their emotions. I think about a variety of things. It’s really about setting both people up for success and then when you have that conversation, how are you actually contracting? Contracting is a very coachee term, but what are the agreements that we’re setting up? How can we really create that psychologically safe space to ensure that we both understand the why, why we’re having this conversation, and what we hope to achieve? Typically, the why, it’s not just to impart information, it’s to connect with that person. You’re sharing this information because you care because you’re invested in the relationship and sharing that why is a huge game-changer because a lot of the time, we’re moving too fast, and we forget to include that why.

Queing (she/her/queen): That’s really profound what you said about being aware of the energy that you’re bringing to the conversation. Something that I took note of, and I’m already feverishly taking notes. You said that there need to be some agreements. What would you say are the foundational bottom line? These things have to be agreed upon entering into these types of conversations and is this something that should be communicated throughout the organization or is it something that people would set up between themselves? What does that look like and if you had to say, okay, these three or however many what has to be there?

Anu Mandapati: Yeah, I think at the individual level, at the team level, and organizational level. So, we’re talking about three different… So, when I say individual, I mean interpersonal. So, at the interpersonal level, when you’re interacting with one person it depends on a variety of situations for me to say that these are the must-haves. So, I think taking a step back from all of that, the biggest thing that people want is to know that it’s a confidential conversation. So, making sure that if I’m about to share something with you I might fumble I might say things the wrong way. So, assuming positive intent and tying into, and we’ll talk about the space and grace piece, but that’s a huge part of that. Maybe Queing, I’m just going to jump right into the space and grace piece of it because I think it’s so pivotal for this.

So, one for sure is when I am going to engage in any conversation or interaction, I want to give myself space and grace because this is a journey. We’re all learning about one another and we’re all moving forward together. So, space and grace, one, is for me. Space and grace two as I call it is really about, I’m in the conversation. So, how am I asking for space and grace? And that’s part of that agreement, that contracting from the other person because I hope that that person is assuming positive intent. But I might fumble, I might say something, it might not be taken the way I intended. So, it’s about having that conversation there. So, we can talk about, hey, you just said this, and it didn’t land so well with me. So, we can talk about that because we’re setting those parameters there and creating that psychologically safe space.

That third space in grace I would say is when someone gives us feedback and/or they’re giving us some form of information. How do we give them space and grace? Because first of all, if they’re giving us some feedback, it doesn’t mean it’s the most comfortable for them, especially if there’s a difference in position like positional power. Let’s say you’re giving feedback to your leader. So, there might be a little bit of discomfort there and there might not be, but that space and grace, sometimes people want feedback wrapped up in a nice, neat package with a red bow on top. That’s not always how feedback is given. So, when someone’s giving feedback, how do we give them space and grace, and really take that constructive content from whatever they shared and then take action on that, as opposed to this person didn’t really say it in the best way and I’m really focused on that. That’s not the point of it. The point of it is what’s that constructive piece that I can take so I can actually shift my actions and my behavior.

Queing (she/her/queen): Thank you. You know, when you spoke about the agreement of a confidential conversation, it reminded me of a recent experience that I had where although that was not stated upfront there was somewhere within that conversation, a good part of the way within that conversation, maybe 15/20 minutes in where I knew within myself that this was a moment. I said to the person within that conversation, hey, I just want you to know that what you’re sharing with me right now stays in this room and it was a virtual room. But hearing you say that, that that is a point to make during space and grace, especially since we want to create connection and we want people to feel like they can be vulnerable and be themselves and we want it to be an environment where people feel belonging that’s so important.

You also mentioned assuming positive intent and I feel like that one’s so connected with the feedback one. Sometimes a person, and let’s say that we are the people might receive feedback from someone who might be very well-intended, but it is so uncomfortable to hear it, or we don’t agree with what they’re saying. How can we help not take it so personally and separate who we are and what we do from what it is that they’re saying? Because these are some things, what you’re sharing right now we can ascend to that. What you’re saying is like, yes, that’s right. That’s so true. But when it’s actually happening to you, is there any advice you can offer in terms of how to make that distinction so that you can do what you’re suggesting here?

Anu Mandapati: Absolutely, and I don’t think it’s about doing something when you’re receiving the feedback, it’s doing the work before. What I mean by that is…

Queing (she/her/queen): Oh, yes.

Anu Mandapati: Yeah.

Queing (she/her/queen): Yes.

Anu Mandapati: The work before is what is feedback? It’s data and it’s data in a specific period of time. It’s a snapshot of behavior and the way it’s perceived. It’s not a snapshot or an evaluation of who I am. So, just like you said, I mean, it literally is how do you take in feedback, but not take it on. A lot of the time we assign a meaning to feedback and that meaning is where it gets a little tricky? If someone says there’s feedback on a specific action. So, let’s just say for me in my role. So, maybe there’s facilitation and I could have improved in a specific area.

The meaning I’m assigning to that right then and there is, wow, I’m the world’s worst facilitator. That was just really terrible, or this person thinks I’m terrible. When we start to personalize it, we’re not taking in the feedback, we’re taking it on and it gets really, really heavy because we’re assigning a meaning that doesn’t need to be assigned there. If I’m taking feedback in, okay, here’s an opportunity. Yeah. Here’s an opportunity. My facilitation, here are things that went really well. Here are some things I can improve upon. This is great because then I can focus on that for next time. So, I just take it in as opposed to kind of wearing this heavy layer of assigning that negative, meaning about myself, because it’s not about me, it’s about some specific actions that I took.

Queing (she/her/queen): One of the things I’ve trained myself to do Anu, and I can’t say that I do it naturally. I have to, as you said, do that work on the front end so that it can start to kick in and speak to me when I’m in the moment. Just yesterday, I received some feedback on something that I had written. There were two mistakes in it that I didn’t catch that had to do with punctuation. So, as I was responding to that edit, I purposefully said, I’m not going to apologize for this. I’m not going to do the ooh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t catch it, this, that and the other, Nope. I said, thanks for catching that. It’s fixed now.

Anu Mandapati: Yep.

Queing (she/her/queen): That kept me from why did I miss that? I must not be that good at this after all? How did that get past me? Thanks for catching that. It’s fixed now.

Anu Mandapati: Yes.

Queing (she/her/queen): And no matter what the other situation, same thing. Thank you for noticing that. Thank you. I’m working on it.

Anu Mandapati: And I love that.

Queing (she/her/queen): That’s really helpful and you know what I think things like that do if we’ll do that front-end work. Not only does it help me from falling into the trap of imposter syndrome, which is easy for a lot of successful folks to do. It, I think helps the other person know that they don’t have to feel a certain type of way to give me feedback. They don’t have to prepare themselves to give me feedback and I know that I’m a little shy sometimes depending on who it is about giving feedback. Yeah, I would appreciate if I had space and grace to be able to do that or know that I could do that. So, I’m glad that you pointed those out. So… Go ahead, it looks like you were going to add another point.

Anu Mandapati: Yeah. Well, just with what you were sharing. So, with doing the work ahead of time and then when we’re in that conversation because if it’s an email, it’s much easier to do it because you get to be more thoughtful, you get to take your time. When you’re actually in the conversation and this is the challenging part because again like you said, we all get it at an intellectual level. We understand this, but how do you actually apply it? I think in that conversation if you’re having a little bit of a reaction then it’s just taking a deep breath, taking a step back, and asking myself, am I taking this in, or am I taking it on? What do I need to support myself in this moment? And it’s just practice, and you’ve heard me say this many times about a lot of things. Everything is really just about practice. It’s not about perfection. So, the more that I start to do that I’m going to feel more comfortable. I’m going to feel more confident and I’m going to be able to manage those types of situations in a better way for me as well as for the other person, because of the energy that we bring into these conversations.

My energy, if I’m the feedback receiver or if I’m the feedback giver, regardless of that, both of our energy in this conversation is going to impact the other. So, how do we both come into it? A big part of that, I think is also just creating an open feedback culture. So, we talk about space and grace but how do we make this the norm as opposed to the exception. The more that we start practicing, it becomes the norm. So, we don’t have to worry about how is this perceived. It’s really ensuring that when you create that culture, it’s going to be much easier for people to give and to receive it because I’m going to assume that positive intent when you give me feedback. It’s going to be easier for you to receive feedback. So, all of that, I think everything we’ve talked about is completely interconnected.

Queing (she/her/queen): As you were talking Anu, I was thinking about how important trust is, a foundation of else in an environment. I was just looking up this book that I read several years ago, you jogged my memory. Have you read the book ” The Five Dysfunctions of a Team?”

Anu Mandapati: Yes.

Queing (she/her/queen): That’s one of my favorite leadership books. In that book for those of you who are listening, and you may not be as familiar. What you really see is this new leader coming in and bottom-line trust is completely broken and trying to reestablish that. Everyone has these different ways that it’s impacted them. But for me, the big takeaway is about how important trust is to an environment. It could really be like trying to turn a big cruise ship, which takes hours to be able to do, to try to turn that thing around. So, when I think about space and grace and creating a culture where there is an open feedback culture there. So, when trust has been broken, when it’s just fragile, when it’s thin ice, how can leaders and people on teams be co-creators of an open feedback culture? Somebody has to start it and has to step out. How do you do that when it might feel scary to do?

Anu Mandapati: You name it. So, if we’re all feeling that trust is broken and we’re not talking about it, that’s not helping the situation. So, for us to move through something, we name it. I mean, it’s…

Queing (she/her/queen): That sounds scary. I’m sure we all have been in these environments and let me just pause and say, you all may hear some growling in the background. Those are my dogs. This is real-life work from home stuff here okay. So yeah. Naming it. I hear you saying that, but I’m thinking, ooh, how would a person begin to do that? But then I remember your counsel about doing some work on the front end. So, when you say name it do you mean saying to someone, listen, I know that we’ve not always been able to share feedback, but blah, blah, blah? How do you do that?

Anu Mandapati: If trust is broken, you don’t name it and you ignore it, it’s just going to get worse. So, when you actually name the problem, the challenge that our trust is not where we want it to be, then we decide, well, where is it that we want to be? How do we all together move towards that? That’s what I mean by naming it. So, another coachee phrase is just you name it to tame it. So, because if you don’t name it and you continue to ignore it, that team dynamic is just going to get worse. So, when you actually name the challenge, name the problem, and then we all work together to come up with the solution. We all come together to talk about what’s the culture we want on the team.

It’s not about shaming, blaming. It’s really about, okay, here’s where we’re at, now where is it that we want to go and how is it that we get there? What are some actions that we want to stop as a team? What are some actions that we want to continue as a team? It’s basically the start/stop/continue exercise. So, engaging in those kinds of behaviors, it’s really about taking time. I think at the individual level, at the team level, taking time to look at where am I, where do I want to be? Where’s the team? Where do we want to be? And doing that on a regular basis. When trust is broken and for trust in general, it’s not just earned. It has to be extended to. So, it gives a little, extend a little and see how that feels. Have conversations.

I mean, at the end of the day, everything that we’ve been talking about here from agreements to space and grace and connection, all of this is communication. All of this is to have better relationships with people, really see people for what they bring, valuing them. How do we work together to create the outcomes that we want? So, all of these pieces, especially trust, I mean it’s not optional. It has to be there, and it can always be improved, and it can always increase. So, what is our trust level now and how do we continue to improve upon that?

Queing (she/her/queen): What you’re talking about takes real intention and real work. It’s so much easier and we’ve experienced these things. It’s so much easier for certain organizations maybe to, we’re going to have a retreat, or we’re going to do some meditation and some yoga. These different one-off exercises or activities that are meant to create trust or create some type of connection. But when these real issues are not addressed, it doesn’t work. I’m reminded of the DEIE book that you just recently did. We have a free download of a DEIE book. You can check that out on our website. In the book Anu talks about when organizations don’t confront the real issues no real work gets done and the people within the organization and people who are looking on, they know it, they can see it too. So, you’ve given us some really great foundational next steps to take in terms of creating space and grace. Is there anything else that you think sometimes gets overlooked when it comes to space and grace, psychological safety, and things like that, that we absolutely want our listeners to get? I don’t want to miss that.

Anu Mandapati: Yeah. I think the biggest piece is we think about our own psychological safety and what do I need? I think it’s important to also think about the other person or people in the conversation. What do we all need and how do we actually give that, create that together to be able to have the interaction conversation, work together, etc.? So, it’s just to make sure that we’re in our emotions and we want to think about the other people involved as well and role model it at the very beginning. Just talking about what it is that we all need to move towards the outcome that we want.

Queing (she/her/queen): Anu, thank you so much. I could go on and on with you. I mean, I have learned so much from you and I’m so grateful to know you. You all can learn more about a new by clicking on the link in our bio, and then go look up Anu and see the great work that she’s doing, not just in Talking Talent but even outside too. So, thank you for being here.

Anu Mandapati: Thank you